The fun now begins:


http://www.nrn.com/breakingNews.aspx?id=34...mp;menu_id=1368

Ya know, i think this is a case of Location, Location, Location. Im not saying their food is entirely bad, but not saying its the greatest at all... However their location and promise of not so terrible food brings people in. As far as the whole Jean Georges aspect of it, its really his only restaurant that you could really franchise... I suppose it would be wierd to have Mercer Kitchen somewhere in the middle of Istanbul... on Baklava street... and still have it sound like any ole person with money could walk into...

Then again with that writeup not so long ago bout being the Applebees of So Ho... and the cause of it being that he is stretching himself thin... Is that such a good idea to hang some weight on your balls when its already so long...?

Oh Please....his balls are piñatas that some just have to take a swing at!

The only thing that gets your tab to 60.00 bucks a person is the drinks. The rice is only 2.50 cents. Only a few select items go over 30.00.

Are they serious??? Spice Market is NOT high end!!! It's a place to go and get loud with friends and enjoy some good drinks and eats.

You know what?? Let him open a hundred of his concepts (8?). At least he isn't selling 30.00 burgers, 1000.00 dollar omelettes, 250.00 dollar mushroom dishes or 150.00 Kobe beefs entrees or better yet 250.00 a person for a 9 course menu of Hors Devours.

If you lost money working for him...no excuses...go tag onto one of those class actions and get it back...

Moving forward....Go JG..


And to all....

Happy New Year!!!!

Passion, I love the new logo/avatar.

yay!

Thanks DSW...just know that your hubbie and all those who have to work the holidays are appreciated.

Be careful Passion...............He charges $40.00 for the hotel burger at JG
And your right Spice Market was not about being high end and the average cover is about $45-50 per.

But don't expect any of the Starwood clones to generate the volume of the MPD.

Well im pretty sure they are using "high end" loosely. As in a High end chef owns it... not High end food.

Wow, Abbester! You're so powerful they have to tell their PR firm to call NRN to refute everything that you've been saying here in the forum? You go, girl!

Anything in a Trump building doesn't count

"The original Manhattan Spice Market, which is located in New York’s trendy Meatpacking district, encompasses about 13,500 square feet of space and generates some $15 million annually on a per-person check average of $60."



1,000 covers a day?

Yeah, right.

LOL.

Hate to break your heart Dick.................but those numbers are right!!

Remember, the MPD is party central.............although by now I am sure they have settled down to only 13M

It all counts when your perception is equal to value

On the weekends. That's 3 days. What about the other 4? I don't buy it.

Oh, and that's another thing. MPD is party central those nights. But because there's so many places to go, the customers hop. $60/head in one space? I doubt it. But, I'll admit, in it's heyday, maybe.

Actually, the numbers come out to about 685 covers a day. That's more believable, but yeah, I don't think they do that Sun-Wed.

Well, I guess that's where the numbers get tricky. They are including bar customers and not just DR covers.

Very good Inky

Trust me guys................those number are right (If you check R&I mag under the independants, they are claiming 13M)

Don't forget parties, and a 50/50 sales mix..................this puppy rocks

Although I really don't see the clones doing any better than 5M per location
And I agree with Passion..........It may not translate for hotel quests..........Let's wait and see




I LOVE THIS TOWN!!!

As a person who has worked in PR I can tell you that is exactly what that piece looks like. It's practically written as though it's addressing every comment said here word for word. Let's put the pieces together. You have already talked about how some of the biggest people in the rest industry read this forum and that the quality of the traffic here is more important than the quantity and suddenly this piece pops up in a rest industry newsletter? I don't know how it can possibly get any more obvious than that.

Well the funniest thing is that nrn is kind of a joke of a newsletter. It comes free to your office and doesn't really have so much to do with fine dining at all. It's most;y about big chains like Burger King and TGIF and what kind of walkins they use and who supplies their condiments. So they fact that they would wirte about this at all is pretty weird, so someone would have had to call this info in to them.

I'm more interested in how this is going to translate for JG. Branding is never a good idea if you want to maintain an exclusive 'image'. And it's not just for rest's, it goes for all businesses. Building all those units is really blanketing the marketplace. Higher exposure equals lowered perceptions. But I guess that's why they call it 'selling out'.

You mean like Coach bags and the like?? (I love mine by the way)

This is a no win situation: If you are exclusive- your a snob. If you branch out to include more people, you are a sell out.

Not fair.

I don;t know anything about Coach bags but I owuld think it would be the same scenario. And I for one don't see being exclusive as being a snob, unless the qualty of your product does not meet the hype that surrounds it. Is Aston Martin a snobby company? No. It's just that the quality demands low production and high prices to maintain it. As does JG's flagship.

If you branch out as you say, then lower quality is inevitable because if the lack of ability to control everything at higher quantities. And let's face it, if JG can't even maintain the quality at the first Spice in MPD - it's just not as good after Chef Gray left and I'm saying that from my own personal experience, then he is going to have a much harder time of it globally. Once your product is known for its mediocrity, you have 'sold out'.

It's also not a question of what's fair or not. It's just the facts.

This guy must be fucking incredible then, if this is his sub-par performance....I am impressed. I always enjoy my time at the SM-food and all. Same for Perry and MK as well as the obvious JG at the Trump. I am just sorry I missed the so called pure version of JGV. That must have been something. But I am happily enjoying JG and Keller's dining experiences even when they aren't around. The waitstaff I meet at the above places have been nothing but upbeat and friendly-from the hostesses to the busboys and everyone in between. I have eaten at Breeze on 9th ave and they also serve the Asian fusion fare. Its pretty good but Vong beats it hands down.

Nothing for nothing, but if I buy a dress at Bloomies and it's a Jones NY and not sold in the Jones NY store itself, it still looks great on me. I cannot detect the difference.

I do notice that in this town if you get too big... they will try to knock you down. I am not getting hung up on the political end of it (if he is a sell-out). Frankly, I don't give a shit. The only thing I care about is that they fix the wages crap so no one else gets screwed.

If these places are open for 5, 10, 16 years, then it isn't a fluke. I am sorry. Too many people are enjoying this fare as well. (Only 13 million) for a restaurant! R U kidding me?! It's bloody hard to make money in this business.

Sorry, I stand by the Master. I hope he opens more places in local cities such as Boston and Montreal. Then I will be in there. If you don't like JG or working for him, you will find something wrong somewhere- everywhere.

Same for Keller, Ducasse, Mr. Mario and Ms. Lidia. Let them expand to their hearts content. It creates happy diners and mucho employement for Chefs and waitstaff.

Love Manhattan!

Bravo......Passion

They absolutly deserve to expand their brands and share their talant with the world
The real problem is, can they handle the growth without giving up the quality, consistancy, and service levels they are use to.

As I have stated before, there is a good reason why there is no public 4 star restaurant organization currently in existance.
In order for a JG or a DB or an ER to expand, they need a large capital partner, and more importantly, an above average management team to support the growth.

They all need to develop a plan to clone their concepts without those sacrafices.

The entire industry is slowly learning how to increase their margins in order to present a better return on investment to attract the private equity guys with the big money.

The question is are they ready?

oh shit it's funny you should say that

did you see the "greatest hits" posting ?? ----> http://pxthis.invisionzone.com/index.php?s...post&p=4561

down there by the bottom i mention NRN.

Hey there, I am not trying to knock anyone down, like I said, I'm just stating facts. And I'm not the only person to think so, I believe a food writer named Richman who was a big fan of JG's also wrote the same thing, that the quality at Mercer, Spice and V etcc doesn't live up to his image because he's spread hmself to thin. This isn't even about JG anyway, it's about branding in general. Any high end product that gets so watered down is going to suffer in quality and that's just a fact, no more and no less.

I rest my case.

And if they can do it, they should bottle it and sell it. If it was realistically possible, don't you think everyone would do it?

It's already nt that good for his image 'cos it's W, it;s not like it's Ritz or 4 Seasons.

Not everyone is trying to do it

Every independant restaurant is different, with different rules of thumb
But the franchise playbook demands a benchmark as such.

Risky.........yes
Big return if you can pull it off..............definitely

Brand = concept formula + management + hype

They did bottle it and sold it to Catterone...........let's see if it works

That same asshole stated that JG the place was not important and trashed Perry St. He is on crack! He also pissed all over New Orleans at their worst moment right after the hurricanes and hit the NYC dining scene alltogether.

I didn't mean you personally knocking him down, I am sorry if it sounded that way, those stupid critics were who I was reffering too. Alaine Ducusse (after that article in NY Mag this week) may be next...

When it looks like this





http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobas...tent?oid=474686






What were they thinking?

"One final warning: Prepare to have your fashion sense, even if it's as primitive as mine, shocked by the servers' uniforms. Oy! Go and see for yourself."

Are they a copy of the same uniforms????? Does LF have say in Atlanta????? She even has to pick the earrings!!!!!!

that must be one of the best backhanded fluff pieces i have ever read. brilliant.

LOL.

BETH LANDSMAN: So, tell us, what exactly are your multiple responsibilities? It's incredible, two at the same time, and yet you seem so unfazed! You must be so busy, planning all the business strategies!

LOIS FRIEDMAN: No, we have CEO's, CFO's and attorneys for that.

BL: The design of the spaces then?

LF: No, we have expensive architects like Richard Meier and Jacques Garcia for that.

BL: The handling and training of the staff then?

LF: No, we have Human Resources, Service Coordinators and Floor Managers for that.

BL: Daily Operations?

LF: No, we have GM's for that.

BL: Uh, food and beverage?

LF: No, we have a Beverage Director for that. And Executive Chefs, as well as Chef de Cuisines, of course.

BL: Dealing with the clientele, maybe?

LF: No, we have Maitre d's and Reservationists, as well as Open Table, for that.

BL: I see. So, uh, what is it you're doing again, exactly? Aside from prancing around in your Dior?

LF: Hey! I had to pick out the earrings! The staff is just too stupid to do it for themselves!

BL: Do you really want me to say that? That's all I can write? This is New York Magazine!

LF: It's not good enough? Wait, I know, you can write about my cell phone! That's important!

BL: Great idea! But wait.... it's been done already? Forget it, never mind. Earrings, it is!

okay well i got some 411 straight from istanbul

apparently SpiceMarket isn't exactly wowing them over there. evidently, it's a big hit as a "first try" cuz everybody is curious and whatnot, but according to my sources, "nobody [they] know has expressed any interest whatsoever in going back."
which is kinda saying a lot cuz these peoples know pretty much EVERYBODY, i am not even kidding.

it seems maybe part of the problem is lots of other famous restaurants have opened simultaneously-- Zuma (? never heard of it, but supposably it's "huge in london") and Hakkasan (which, to be fair, isn't really impressing the turks either i hear). Nobu coming soon to istanbul too, so maybe they're just saturated or some shit right now.

also the other problem might be that istanbul has their own faboolous restaurateur type dude ("the keith mcnally of istanbul"-- that's a direct quote) and he already owns places which are totally hott and one just happens to have a glorious view of the bosphorus. it's called-- shit i can't remember the name now-- Equus ?? something like that [and his other one is PaperMoon].
anyways-- like i said before, the turkish are really patriotic so maybe they just feel better sticking to chillin with their own homeboy. the fuck i know

i'm just sayin.

As I once said...............The concept may not translate outside MPD demographic..........especially since they are not retaining the same interior look. The full experience being watered down will definitely hurt it's impact.

The real question is has some of our powerhouse restaurant operators become dated?

I also wondered about this. Another prob might be that opening in other savvy cities means they have all visited ny at some point and already have opinions about the place. That also would take away from tje 'wow' factor.
When I have friends visit from other big cities I find it is all the lowkey local spots that they like the most and not the ones that they already know about.

That's a good point. If I were to go to another city like London or Istanbul, the last place I would want to go is an off-shoot of a NY restaurant. That would be like traveling halfway around the world just to go to Bennigan's.

is there any place on the web to actually SEE this interior ? i'm so curious as to what it looks like and i tried googling but can't find anything.

how much different is it ? i mean, i get that it's not jacques-garcia with all his faboolous shit from ABC carpets, but it doesn't look, like-- CORPORATE or anything, does it ?

and W is so hard to pin down-- cuz some are buttassed ugly (union square, midtown, etc) but then the one in seoul (for example) is SLAMMIN.

Here you go Abbe


http://flickr.com/photos/kcweiss/2526050079/

Speaking of "branding" : here is a really good article on the subject.

Wolfgang puck has 100 restaurants! JGM or CCJG are tiny brands compared to some of these other Chefs...

http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/2008...ood-trends.html

Real interesting when speaking of watering down a product and such...

By the way, the pix of the SM in Turkey looked real nice on JG's site. Much nicer than the one in Atlanta (which pix shows it ugly)

thanks for the photos Moneyman !

actually i think it looks kinda nice. i see what you mean about the "watered-down" stuff though. obviously it has more of a mass appeal (doesn't the original have uncomfortable STOOLS at some tables ?? can't remember now, it's been so long since i've been in there) but i think it's still in keeping with the design concept, no ? (the bathrooms are dope.)

i was having a very interesting conversation with a prominent restaurateur last night (who's also going "international" these days apparently). he was a little concerned about how SpiceMarket in istanbul is being received (he's also heard negative comments about it-- in TOKYO !!) and we ended up having some pretty engaging discourse about "brands" and perceptions and urbane cities etc etc--
if i had known my brain was going to end up being picked so much, i would charged a fucking consultation fee up front. ha haa ahaa uggh


i am curious though--

do you think if the first ones (atlanta, istanbul) don't live up to expectations, it will affect the others ? would they still push ahead anyways ? is it a contractual thing ?? and certainly i would have thought the shaky economy would have an impact...

oh yah, an interesting direct quote that puts things in a little perspective-- "... how many new yorkers do you think go to Olives in union square?"

hmmm.

but still-- Olives is doing all right, wouldn't you think ?

oh duh

i just found the other thread with the atlanta photo

i think i will just merge the two together.

oh crap i did something wrong cuz it merged on the second page


WHATEVER, YOU GET THE POINT MUTHERFUKKERS

I sent you pics of Atlanta, Istanbul, and Dohr.........check your yahoo account